is being trans being sexist?

“In my opinion… any “gender identity” is inherently sexist, because you are attaching certain psychological attributes to biological sexes (which then become reified as “genders”) and then identifying your personality as belonging to such ridiculous constructs.”  — BlueTRICKster (read original post)

“But I can’t deny that traditional femininity is in no way right for me.  But how can I say that my penchant for rough-and-tumble games, practical & comfortable clothes, total discomfort with the idea of pregnancy, and having male companions makes me more of a boy than the next girl?  Isn’t that just playing into close-minded stereotypes?  Everybody has qualities that are traditionally masculine or traditionally feminine, and wouldn’t being proud of both my personality and my biological sex be more of a healthy and feminist stance?”  —ladyxxxlazarus (read original post)

“Truth is this, the clothing you wear does not make you male or female, who you are does that for you. So what does it matter?”  —Reneta Xian (read original post)

first off, NO.  no, being trans is obviously NOT being sexist.

this is something i’ve wondered about on many occasions.  i’m formulating the details of my opinion as i go along, so be patient and lemme know if i’m being incoherent or something. also, pleasepleaseplease tell me what you think of all this.  i think this is an important discussion.

as you may know, i’m a non-binary trans person, but i was assigned female at birth.  i believe that woman can be rough and/or gentle, loud and/or quiet, etc.  i know women who fit the male stereotype much better than i do— and i totally respect that they are women.

i believe that sex, gender identity and gender expression are distinct from one another.  i mean, someone with a penis can be a woman while behaving in a stereotypically male fashion.  who the fuck am i to tell this person that women don’t have penises and that women don’t like dirtbiking?  women do whatever they want and it doesn’t matter what genitals they have.

if i believe that sex, gender identity and gender expression are distinct from one another, then why can’t i just go with the gender i was assigned at birth?  i don’t know.  i really don’t know why i feel like a non-binary trans person.  i’m completely mystified.

it’s not that i don’t fit the stereotypes of the gender binary.  i mean, i don’t, but who does?  not fitting the stereotypes might not be a strong enough reason for identifying as non-binary because, well, the stereotypes are spidershit.

i view gender itself as a partly social construct that is incapable of binding people who don’t wish to be bound by it.  many people live happily and naturally with gender. many interactions between people are based on gender; whether or not it is entirely based in fact is irrelevant.  that’s why i don’t just want to get rid of gender; if it works for some people, than good for them.  other people reject gender and live happily and naturally without it.  and that’s pretty splendid, man.

i’m also not trying to create a new stereotype for non-binary people by calling myself genderqueer.  as far as i’m concerned, a person with a pussy who loves wearing pink ball gowns and fucking people with penises can be genderqueer, too.  i just don’t want anything to do with gender and its silly stereotypes and so i call myself “queer”.

i believe that gender is complex and mysterious and that we don’t have to put it under a microscope and dissect it.  i mean, maybe it’s so personal that it doesn’t really have to make sense.  i think gender is also inherently a bit nonsensical— like religion.  it either works for you or it doesn’t, but it doesn’t have to be logical.

so here’s where i’ve arrived: i’m not a non-binary trans person because i do/wear/say non-binary things.  i’m a non-binary trans person and i don’t need a bloody reason.  huzzah! that means i’ve decided that being trans does NOT automatically make you sexist.  sexist is when you label someone else as cis/trans because they do/don’t fit the stereotypes.  transness is perfectly valid and is based on things deeper than the gender stereotypes.

ps: in case anyone is wondering, i don’t prance about in tutus and mustaches.  i prance about in black kitty ears and band shirts (slayer, right now).  mostly, though, i prance about nekkid.

edit (august 11th, 2011)

i’ve just realized that i forgot to discuss something important.

while i do believe that gender stereotypes are social constructs (i doubt that fetuses with penises already like blue), i do realize that gender itself is also partly based on biology.  for example, i’m not saying that a trans person could be raised to be cis.  just saying.

26 responses to “is being trans being sexist?

  1. genderproject

    These are very important things to work out, I think about them a lot myself. What I think is that no matter how much some of us wish wish that people would not gender us, most people will anyway. All we can do is either decide we’ll work with the original gender role we were given and challenge the times when people have sexist expectations of us, or we decide that we would like to pass more as a different gender -for example m, f, androgynous or gender-contradictory -and so change the image we present in order to reflect that.

  2. Questions I ask myself all the time.
    I guess I constant;y wonder: what is a gender identity?? So many cis individuals can tell me definitively: “I feel like I’m a boy/girl.” And in my case, I know that I’m not, because I don’t have any of those feelings. I guess I lack a gender identity? So for me I avoid all of the labels, I just know that I’m not a boy/girl. I don’t know if that really even changes anything…
    If someone feels they are trans because they feel themselves to be a certain gender, then they aren’t necessarily sexist (and really who can tell them that internal feeling is wrong anymore I can tell my mother shes crazy for thinking shes a girl), they just are something different from wha tothers perceive them as, stereotypes aside. And who am I to tell someone there is no gender, when someone feels strongly they are one.
    I don’t know, it’s all very messy. I think we shuold all just eat cake and forget about it all…at least while were eating the cake.

  3. Pingback: Prom with Freud and Jung « SlutLyfe

  4. Uh oh, I wrote you a response!! XD

  5. “And who am I to tell someone there is no gender, when someone feels strongly they are one.” —sonicrhubarb

    my thoughts exactly, sonicrhubarb! respect for other people, trans, cis, whatever, is extremely important. and i love cake…

    “All we can do is either decide we’ll work with the original gender role we were given and challenge the times when people have sexist expectations of us, or we decide that we would like to pass more as a different gender…” —genderproject

    i’m sure that’s true for a lot of people, but arriving at “non-binary trans person” didn’t feel like a decision to me. i really don’t feel like i gave up on challenging other people’s sexist expectations of me. i don’t place expectations on other people based on gender or sex and i don’t place such expectations on myself. so what gives, right?

    i reallyreally don’t know why i don’t feel like a woman. sometimes, i feel that i don’t have a gender, binary, non-binary or whatever.

    thanks for all the opinions; keep ’em rolling. you guys rock HARD!

  6. Pingback: Am I Sexist? « SlutLyfe

  7. Pingback: On Gender Identity: A Rant « SlutLyfe

  8. I am also a non-binary transperson, I am a transwoman. Woman refers more to how I feel about my body than to any social dichotomy. In the most internal way being male is wrong for me because it always felt wrong. I find that sexism, stereotypes, and other social constructs of gender are an ocean we are all trying not to drown it. I simply find, that in this ocean I can not swim, and the only logical choice for me to make is to get out of the water. But I have tried before to navigate those waters because of desires to ‘fit in’, but in the end none of us were really designed to swim, though some can.

    Like Gender-project pointed out I could have either decided to work with in and confront the sexist expectations, or change which gender I fall under. But more to the point to me, when I stripped away all the social neuroses, I was not who I felt my body was representing me to be. Ultimately, it was that which I couldn’t reconcile and thus decided to transition. And I know in hindsight it was right for me, but also understand it isn’t right for all. Any intersexed, transgender, or non-binary person can use logic to see that anything claiming “truth with all encompassing dichotomies” that aren’t true all the time, or for everyone are simple not true in the slightest.

    For me, I think the important thing is that I am true to myself and to hell with labels. But, transitioning doesn’t give one freedom from having to confront sexist expectations. So yes Mx. Punk you are right that sex, gender identity, and gender expression are entirely different things, although I’d add sexual orientation to that too. I’d say that gender expression and sex are the biggest issues you have to contend with deal with sexism, because they are the most visible usually. I see sexism through the concept that it most enforces which is heteronormativity. I find it fruitless and unnecessary to cater to a system that neither accepts you nor has a place for you, so it would be pointless to be trans and follow their dogma.

  9. dude, those are some good points! however, i’ve had to deal with sexism coming from heterosexual cis people AND from trans people, homosexuals, bisexuals, pansexuals— i think sexism and genderism (bigotry in general) are pretty equally distributed.

    i’ve had lesbians get mad at me for settling down with a “heterosexual” cis man; i guess they never respected my pansexual transness. i’ve heard bisexuals discussing how different men and women are. i’ve been told by other trans people that i should just fuck off and call myself cis because i like having tits.

    but i totally see what you mean about sexism enforcing heteronormativity (a word i usually avoid because, well, what IS normal?). really, we should all just eat cupcakes together and strive to be completely non-judgmental.

    thanks for telling me what you think!

  10. By the way, I also really liked this post. Hope I didn’t get all philosophically and stuffs… Oh I guess me clicking the like button kind of did that too, doh. Anyhow, it’s a very insightful and reflective which is something I applaud. I just wish more people would challenge the social constructs (by more I mean all, but still) and find a sense of self. All the constructs do is create shallow, superficial egomaniacs who hide their real selves behind complicated façade.

  11. thanks! philosophical and stuffs is great!

  12. I like heteronormativity because it covers the topics of sexism, heterosexism, cissexism as well. Heteronormativity is sort of subjective in nature because of the determinant social ideology of normal, but I use it as a primary focus to discuss the nature of society to apply gender, sex, sexual orientation and gender expression as mutually exclusive and attach moral arguments to all variations. Science prove many of them as natural, and the medical and psychiatric community know that, regardless of the cause, these things aren’t subject to change through therapy. This lends to the idea that it is biological as the solitary psychological aspect tend to have feasible treatments in favor of norms. I.E. Body Dysmorphic Disorder (a misdiagnosis for Gender Identity Disorder on occasion) can be treated with therapy and SSRI medication, where as Gender Identity Disorder is not treatable, which is why transition becomes necessary (and the degree varies from person to person, and no one particular level of transition is suitable for all).

    And I’d agree, the GLBT community can be just as sexist as the rest of the world. I know of sexist lesbians, gays, bisexual and yes even transgender people playing the “gayer/trannier then thou” card. It’s just that generally, GLBT people are in a better position to understand than the reverse. Being trans makes you smarter than the average bear about issues relating to gender, but doesn’t on its own grant understanding. I’d advise all people, not just those applicable to heteronormative subjective statistical application to understand the role sexism and all it’s subordinate forms of discrimination (cissexism, heterosexism). Mx. Punk, I’d say that you are fine just how you are (how you feel right to be), and you have no obligation (as I am sure you are aware) to follow what other people think your body should look like. It’s that same mentality that contributes to the thinking that intersex people must mutilate or change their genitals in accordance with normalization. If they are okay with it then they have that right. I think once we debunk the gender binary and sexist myths it will be easier to essentially understand the diversity of a gender and sex of humanity.

    The biggest issue behind this is the essentialist denial of diversity, and the establish concordances of conformity forced upon us all. You can only be who you were made to be, nothing more nothing less. It is why I view human gender, sex and potential as bi-potential or bipolar. Maybe bipolar isn’t a sufficient term, but I find bipolar sex/gender allows for more diversity. People range from typically male and female to atypically male or female (intersexed) so it would seem to be more true than binary sex/gender.

  13. i agree that the denial of diversity is the biggest issue behind all this. the denial of diversity and the lack of respect for diversity, i mean.

    ok, i see what you mean by “heteronormativity”. i still won’t use the word, but i concede your right to use it and i’m not offended by it. :)

    that’s a good point about gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation having a biological basis. that’s something i completely forgot to discuss in this post. i need to be more clear, i think.

    basically, i think the gender stereotypes are social constructs. gender, i think, is part social construct and part biological phenomenon.

  14. Pingback: From Girlhood to New Woman « Boddhi-Sappho

  15. And I totally agree with that… I’d really love to not have the layers of ‘make believe’ the world builds around this issue to understand what it really means to be man and woman striped clean of the constructs. I feel it would be enlightening to see how simple the differences between men and women are, and how powerful a message it would be to show people that. But for now, I can only imagine a simpler world where people are just that, people.

  16. yes! let’s all just be peoples! i guess that is the simplest way to describe my gender identity and my sexual orientation; i’m a person who is attracted to people. oh, yes, punk likes.

  17. On a funny side note, I just noticed the icon next to your name is a T-Rex who killed some little stick dude laying at his feet. LOL Did you do that on purpose?

  18. “i mean, maybe it’s so personal that it doesn’t really have to make sense.”

    This is exactly my experience of gender. I found that a lot of my “gender dysphoria” went away when I stopped trying to justify my feelings about my gender in terms other people could understand. I have a gender and it is something or other and that’s good enough for me.

    This actually reminds me of something. Some philosopher (I think it was Heidegger, don’t quote me on that one…) wrote about some experiences being “ownmost”, meaning that they belong only to you and can’t be effectively communicated to others. He was talking about death in this case, but the idea of experiences being non-relateable has been around for a while and I think it works with gender.

  19. @ retetascian: oh, yes. i love drawing silly pictures with bloody squiggles. i think my nephews and my niece taught me how fun it is to draw, say, a stick person crawling away from an erupting volcano. lol! glad you like it!

    alexthesane… yes! so rad to know that someone else feels the same way i do! i think gender identity is definitely ownmost.

  20. I did have another thought about your blog about being sexist. I am non-binary, but I realized if you were a binary transperson you would be sexist. One example would be a transperson insulting another person for not getting surgery, or displaying hatred for cross-dressers. Mind you cross-dressing is an entire other complex from transsexuality, and only exists because of the gender value we attach to clothing… I think in a society with out gender values in garments there would be no cross-dressers. But it highlighted something something about how I feel about things… I find sexuality, in the exaggerated context it exists in our society, scary. I am not talking about simple arousal, intimacy, or sexual feelings, but the hypersexuality of society. The open social repression sexuality (excluding heterosexuality to some degree), coupled with these sexually frustrating agitations almost creating conflicting degree of hypersexuality. It’s like taking a starving poor person, sitting them in a room full of food. Then instead of giving them the food you give them a stipulation, you can’t eat it with your hands and there is no forks.

    I find the combination of repression, and temptation to be a dangerous one. It can create a tendency to distort the nature of sexuality, and not only that but gender as well. Now, bear this in mind, it wouldn’t be appropriate to specify this as the symptom or the disease, but pointing it out can help in understanding the underlying reason. I think it’s this that causes all the confusion and insanity revolving around sexuality, and gender in America. Gender is an issue because sex is. It creates the aura of conditional sexism, sexism based on the status past and future of your genitals. A genital centric culture, obsessed with sex and specific kinds of genitals with no consideration for the individual. A culture where your status, others interest, and your livelihood depends on your genitals. Perhaps that is what sexism is, but it seems a little bit insufficient to describe our cultural obsession with genitals, and we aren’t the first or the last. Chromosomes, hormones, appearance, and other polychotomies all take second place to genitals in majority opinion. But gender and sex really is polychotomous, and this fixation is contrary to reality. I don’t think gender is a spectrum because there are so many traits that make up gender and spectrum are too narrow to even be all inclusive. Perhaps this all evolves from cultural nature to categorize, and comes into conflict with anything that is allegorical.

    The brain can understand abstract thought, but socially and culturally we are taught to think with in the confines of rigid constructs… Perhaps as a group we can evolve away from this way of thinking, and in turn unlock the secrets of the universe. Maybe abstract intelligence in humans is only in it’s infancy and as time progresses it will grow, who knows… Thinking outside of the box has advantages, but damn some days I wonder if it would be easier not to. Box thinkers and non-box thinkers don’t see eye to eye. On an anecdotal philosophical context, does that make every non-abstract person like Schrodinger’s Cat? Simultaneously sentient and non-sentient, intelligent and non-intelligent at the same time? Philosophically speaking we can determine from outside the box whether their confinement is intelligent/sentient or decidedly non-intelligent by design. I am of coarse strictly joking. Like Carl Sagan’s comparison of 3rd dimensional beings meeting a 4th dimensional one. All we’d see of them would be the parts that intersected our perceivable dimensions. Anyhow, sorry for the tangent.

  21. Philosophically speaking we can’t… (hate it when I do that.)

  22. Pingback: Gender Identity: What is Androgyny? « Reneta Xian

  23. Bradley, the person who has XY chromosomes!!! X3

    Gender identity as a whole is sexist, this is because you’re pairing a gender (male or female) to certain, stereotypical traits (masculinity or femininity) even though those traits are only artificial, meaningless, social constructs. Having a certain pair of chromosomes in one’s genome does not define who someone is- just because each of my cells contain an X and Y chromosome doesn’t mean that I’m “masculine” in any way. However, although I am male and not masculine, that doesn’t make me transgender, agender, or whatever third gender is. This is because gender is (BY DEFINITION) the state of being male or female. And (BY DEFINITION) the state of being male or female is dictated by the 23rd pair of chromosomes in one’s cells, therefore there are only two genders. Being “transgender,” (BY DEFINITION) means that your self-identity does not conform to being either male or female, however due to the fact that self-identity (BY DEFINITION) is the recognition of one’s potential qualities as an individual, (and as I said before you cannot be male and not female, unless you have some sort of birth defect) you cannot actually be transgender. Its whole concept doesn’t make sense, it couldn’t- it’s completely based off of sexist ideals, otherwise it wouldn’t even exist. Technically, I would fit the criteria to be agender or some other gender, but since biologically there are only two genders, and gender identity is a sexist idea, I am male, and there’s nothing I could ever do to change that. (I mean, unless there was some way to swap a Y chromosome with an X in EVERY cell and remain alive of course, which isn’t possible) AAANYWAYS, all I’m saying is yes, yes being trans is sexist (like being any other fake gender). Just be what your personal biology says you are and live your live however you want! After all gender identity is nonexistent and there are no universal laws saying you have to act a certain way. Just live, don’t care about your gender! <3
    P.S. To all you transsexuals out there! Hormones do NOT change your physical sex, "sex-changes" are only a mutilation of your genitalia, which doesn't define your gender. (Sorry, just had some trouble with transsexuals with that before, just wanted to make that clear, but I'll call you whatever you want I guess, but mark the right gender on your medical papers and stuff! Males and females react differently to different treatments and diseases which is why they ask that, obviously X3) And surgery and hormones don't define who you are!!! :)

  24. Bradley, the person who has XY chromosomes!!! X3

    By the way, my comment is not opinionated- it’s based on dictionary definitions of English words and factual science. This is because logic is the only productive way to argue.

  25. Bradley, the person who has XY chromosomes!!! X3

    Also, I would like to point out that you can’t just say you don’t have a gender unless you have some sort of birth defect. Your genome has XX or XY chromosomes and those define your gender- if you don’t have those you probably wouldn’t be living. I’m sorry, I know being clumped up with a gender and its stereotypes is annoying, but the sooner everybody accepts that gender and personality do not correlate with each other, the better. Please don’t just say you don’t have a gender if you obviously do, and the pronoun “they” (BY DEFINITION) refers to two or more nouns, therefore that cannot be used as a singular pronoun. (While “they” can be used to refer to a person of unspecified sex, your sex exists and cannot remain unspecified forever, as you DO have a 23rd pair of chromosomes)

  26. http://skepchick.org/2011/12/bilaterally-gynandromorphic-chickens-and-why-im-not-scientifically-male/

    First off, there is so much fallacy in those last comments from Bradley, that I can’t possibly wade through them all. First off, Biological Sex is a construct, a semantic argument about the meaning and value of observed quanta which we as people arbitrate, not nature itself. We need words to describe our experiences, but that doesn’t necessitate that those definitions are true, or that they possess any of the value attachments we place on them. In fact, they don’t, all value we place in them is projected on them, meaning it originates with us. We can make observations, and draw scientific conclusions about those observations, but ultimately what we call it is constructed. And yes, changing hormones does change a physical quality of what we “DEFINE” as with sex or gender, and thus bringing that entire concept into question.

    It challenges all the presumptions which we make and subscribe to, as a culture, for what “Sex” is define by. Changing those physical qualities, even if they were purely superficial alterations (which many sexual traits simply aren’t) demonstrates why our concept of biological sex, or any rigid conceptualization of gender therein as an extension of it makes no sense. Sex Traits exist, and certain combinations bring about sexual reproduction and there is nothing intrinsically problematic with understanding. However, the concept of sex is only in our heads, and belong to a subset of things which can only be social constructed. The concept of “Gender Identity” itself is a product of human beings trying to articulate that relationship with a lack of adequate conventional definitions, and that is what is important,

    None of this is at all arbitrary for how we discuss issues of gender and sex considering that they can be actively harmful, making it a moral issue.

    The problem then with any definition, is the society within which such definitions are understood, discussed, and arbitrated. Some definitions are going to necessarily be sexist. However, any attempt to flip that relationship, to blame gender non-conforming people for the nature of those problems, is blaming the victim. Like cis people, we’re all navigating those definitions, trying to articulate our genuine and real human experiences in a society that not only tries to deny our rights and revoke very our existence, but also reject the words necessary to describe those experiences. The fact that a person prefers to be physically, socially, and anatomically the opposite of the gender those societies define, and assign them with is not at all morally arbitrary.

    I (as a human being) have a preference against pain, the fact that we prefer it is a biological bias. But, because it’s a preference, doesn’t at all make it therefore morally arbitrary or relativistic. It’s a valid realization that inside of some moral justifications, there is going to be things which are not objective, can’t be independently validated, or aren’t true as a rule of general logic. We can’t always wait for an objective account for all things, because some things can’t be accounted for in that way. The fact that trans people suffer without treatment, is more than sufficient justification for a moral re-evaluation of ways in which we discuss and define things. Even if it’s only a preference, that wouldn’t mean that trans people should be denied medical care, social transitions, or any of the legal or socially required processes or interactions (to include proper pronouns).

    And the thing here is this… Even if being trans was a choice, it would remain a valid choice with a necessity for that choice to be protected in law with the same moral requirements for treatment, as they currently do with the recognition of their necessity by every reputable agency to which it concerns. All choices a person makes, that are morally neutral to others, represent a subset of freedoms we describe as individual liberties. There are times when we impede personal choices to prevent self harm, and that’s reasonable. However, transition does not represent that condition. If we are to live in an egalitarian, equal and free society that recognizes morality as a system necessary for humans to exist with each other, with competing interests, every persons’ right to do so must be protected.

    Any argument about definitions is pure semantics, and we should recognize those attempts for what they are.

    An attempt to derail discourse about the needs of trans and gender non-conforming people, their rights, and an attempt to delegitimize their identities, and struggles towards a dubious conclusion that trans people are “Delusional” or “Sick”, potentially for sake of a return to the gender conforming system. Those comments serve to “Remind us of our Place”, to marginalize us, our opinions and experiences. And we’re right to call it as it is. Gender Identity is the product of a need to define our experiences, regardless of whatever issues other people (usually cis people) have with it. We as rational people, should all be willing to challenge any idea or precept, to determine it’s truth or falsehood in light of new information. But in our current society, denying us words to define our experiences only makes it that much worse for us, in the long run.

    It’s important to dissect those definitions without denying the people who need them a voice.

    As a trans woman, I’m not scientifically male just because you say so. Nor do those definitions mean anything other than them being “The way in which we decide to name things”, which can and does change over time, and from society to society, all of which can be flawed. And if those definitions are wrong and especially if they hurt people, we should be critically willing to challenge, discard, alter, or rewrite them in order for them to be meaningful and helpful, as well as useful to us as members of society. Also, your “23rd Chromosome” nonsense isn’t even a cogent idea, because not everyone has a full set of 23 from both parents, and much of human sexual development is handled outside of those specific chromosomes. It’s a chromosomes are destiny argument, and it’s already been debunked many times (ad nauseam).

    Especially since, we know this process fails with regular occurrence.

    A person existing in a particular state which is expressed through their life, needs and decisions, can’t in and of itself be sexist. Only the ways in which we define things can be sexist, sometimes only because we exist in a sexist society that is going to relate to a definition in a sexist way. Because I like her “Gender as Semiotics” approach, I’ve posted to of her works (See bottom and top links). That said, I don’t identify as “Non-binary” anymore, I feel defining myself in that way negatively affirms the gender binary. “Gender Binary” is not actually a thing, we made it up. As such, I just don’t feel I can be “Binary or Non”, because my sense of gender is Reneta-gender, which isn’t to be confused with Steve-gender, or Gwen-gender. Regardless of what degree of the need to express that exists is preference, or necessity does not negate my point.

    We may find similarities in our experiences with others, but that doesn’t mean our experiences are identical. As such, there is literally 7 billion (the exact population of the Earth) number of experiences of what we wrongly define as “Gender” and “Sex”. It’s not our identities that are wrong, it’s out need for neat little boxes to define categories that are dynamic and complex. Sometimes a thing can not be extrapolated to actually exist, simply from logical premises. Sex is a theory, and as such it’s expressed through the information and study we invest about it which advances, evolves and changes with time. If it’s wrong, it’s more than just our responsibility to change it to reflect what we know, it’s morally imperative because accurate knowledge is on what morally critically depends.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2013/03/09/born-this-way-reprise-the-new-essentialism/

    Because this post and my last comments before were long enough ago, I’d have to say that my previous comments do not reflect how I currently feel about this subject, and this comment represents the most accurate representation of what I feel and know about this subject.

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