my silly bathroom dilemma

11 responses to “my silly bathroom dilemma

  1. back to nature, good for living and environment :)

  2. yes, back to nature… as long as i don’t pee in somebody’s garden, it should be fine. lol.

  3. I totally understand this… It is an issue, that just by using the restroom you “gender” yourself to others or risk others labeling you as X or Y. And on the flip-side, that if you seemed out of place, you would be taken as invading someone else’s space. It is a prickly situation indeed. Just another situation that “to me” at least that demonstrates how ingrained sex segregation is, and as a result sexism and discrimination.

    Look at what problems segregation did for the African Americans in the 50s and 60s, and you could quickly see there is a problem with that. Perhaps we’ll have to end that segregation as well, but I don’t know how that will come about. The pointed question. But perhaps the solution lies in teaching our children to integrate as humans rather than as boys and girls, then they’d grow up in a world where that was normal.

    The problem is, that even if there was a “third bathroom” option, the moment you use option three you automatically make yourself a target. You other yourself, which just from ingrained stigmas can be enough to dehumanize you and permit people to treat you poorly. I think in the end, the entire mentality of “man” and “woman” will have to change, no genders on bathrooms would be a trait of true gender equality.

    Men and women discriminate against each other (much more so from binary to non-binary persons), though in our society it tends to go more one way that the other. That is something we’ll have to abolish to progress as a race. But it’s so wide spread you’d be hard pressed to find a place that doesn’t segregate on the premise of gender. However, with the mentality of men I don’t believe our culture is yet suited for such segregation, but perhaps I am wrong.

  4. disturbinglynormal

    It’s… not actually that silly.

    But yeah. I hear you.

  5. “The problem is, that even if there was a “third bathroom” option, the moment you use option three you automatically make yourself a target. You other yourself, which just from ingrained stigmas can be enough to dehumanize you and permit people to treat you poorly.”

    a third bathroom option would be just fine with me! i’m at a point where i don’t mind being called names or shunned or whatever as long as i’m open about my gender. meaning, i would rather “make myself a target” than use the women’s bathroom and reinforce other people’s assumptions about my gender. it wouldn’t have to be a bathroom specifically for people of non-binary gender; officially allowing us to use existing non-gendered bathrooms (labeled “handicapped” and “family”, usually) would be perfect. when there’s a “handicapped” option, i always use it, so just stick a rainbow on the door underneath the wheelchair symbol and make it official.

    that’s just me, though. i certainly wouldn’t mind the eradication of gendered bathrooms; i wouldn’t feel left out or out of place anymore. however, i’m pretty sure that a lot of people value their segregated bathrooms and i wouldn’t feel right taking that away from them. we should continue this bathroom conversation… it’s interesting.

  6. I like the idea of adding rainbows to disabled bathrooms, I’ll have to do that somewhen.
    My view on the bathrooms issue is rather idealistic, but here’s what I think. The labels on the bathroom doors should not show gender, but the type of toilet facilities available inside. There should be one room with urinals, and one room with standard toilet cubicles. This means we don’t need to build any extra rooms, and the idea of gender is completely eliminated from the system.

  7. that’s a great idea and it makes sense. personally, i’d be cool with that. however, the potential problem with eliminating sex-segregated bathrooms is that many people would object to them on the grounds of possible sexual assault. i just don’t think it would go through; too many people would object to it. i think we DO need to have sex-segregated bathrooms, but we need to supplement them with non-gendered bathrooms. simply adding a rainbow (or something) to existing handicapped/family bathrooms would allow space for people of non-binary gender without making the cis majority too uncomfortable. not that cis comfort is my main concern– it isn’t. it’s just that cis people are, well, the majority and many of them are vocal about it.

    thanks for the feedback!

  8. I still see the perspective which you talk about with third bathrooms, however, I feel any kind of segregated bathroom is a bad idea. The idea of sharing a bathroom with a guy is terrifying to me as well. But, in spite of my fear I stand by the idea that segregated bathrooms are divisive, and segregation has a history of being bad for society and has been used to marginalize one group over another.

    It solidifies the division of males verses females, and reinforces the walls and sexism that negatively effect people like you and I. There are other ways to deter sexual assault in public restrooms (like locating restrooms in full public view, higher sentences for violating laws in them, and education). Segregated restrooms are inadequate protection against sexual assault. I personally feel any from of assault in a “public accommodation” should take make a “3 fold rule”.

    To me those measures are a far better deterrent than segregated bathrooms ever were. The same argument you made for segregated bathrooms is the one they use for the exclusion of transgendered rights to use of public accommodations according to their gender identity. It’s a bad argument regardless of who uses it. The idea makes me uneasy too because we grew up in a sex segregated society. Change is scary, but sometimes necessary to effect positive change.

    Generations of people growing up in unsegregated restrooms would understand the need to respect the restroom for what it is. However, such a change requires a big change, and an end to patriarchal mentalities (that a women’s purpose is to have sex with men) to work. I think desegregating restrooms is a very real thing that could be accomplished without the said problems that some people believe will come with it. But I don’t think it will ever happen for our generation, and I too understand how some men can be.

    I just acknowledge that segregation gives physical form to discrimination, and believe that in a gender equal society that it must be abolished. But I maybe wrong that an end to sexism requires and end to segregation to work; however, the majority of evidence indicates it is a reasonable conclusion. Perhaps desegregation of children will lead to an end to sexism while all other public restrooms remain segregated, who knows.

  9. i think my whole problem is that i’ve been raised to believe that people have the right to use sex/gender-segregated bathrooms. but is it actually a right? does it actually matter? i’ll have to think about it. anyway, i think i’ve been brainwashed by this sexist, binarist, ciscentric society.

    “…segregation gives physical form to discrimination…” i really can’t argue with this. plus, anyone who insists that women are safe in the women’s bathroom has never been sexually assaulted by a woman. it’s actually not that uncommon.

    “Change is scary, but sometimes necessary to effect positive change.” this is simple truth, man. again, can’t argue with it.

  10. You and I both Mx. Punk… Oppression is oppression because it oppresses you from both the inside and the outside. Internalized oppression is far more dangerous and insidious than any form of overt oppression. Sexism even makes women oppress other women, men other men, transgender other transgender. Society tries to assert that we are to pair off, breed, have children, pay taxes, make a living, buy a house, and bequeath our possessions when we die (heteronormativity in a nutshell).

    However, we transgender people stand up along with some cisgender people, and some intersexed people to say there is more to life than diligently serving the above system which demeans the value of life. We are more than incubators and inseminators, we are more than the sum of the parts between our legs, and we are not automatons. We have the capacity to be more. However, the tree that does not bend brakes, but the tree that bends too much is blown over to perish as well.

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